Lars von Trier speaks about "Dancer in the Dark"

(Björk, Lars von Trier and Catherene Deneuve at the film festival in Cannes 2000)

*word explanation:
The Golden Heart triology: Lars von Trier often refers to his three movies "Breaking the waves", "The Fools" and "Dancer in the Dark" as the "Golden Heart triology". All three movies are about the martyrdom of self-sacrificing women. They are all said to be inspired by one of Lars' favorite children's books, "Golden heart".

 - You are currently preparing for the production of your first musical, "Dancer in the Dark".

 - Yes, and the filmings will take place in April 1999. At first I wanted to call it "Taps", but that title was unfortuantely already in use. So it has currently got the working title "Dancer in the Dark". I can't call it "Dancing in the dark", because that title is also in use. I may end up calling it something else. This musical is the third part of my triology "Golden heart", which also includes "Breaking the waves" and "The Fools". It has got a new heroine, named Selma, who resembles Bess from "Breaking the waves" and Karen from "The Fools". I've recently met Björk, who is supposed to write the music and I want her to play the part as well.

 - This sounds like an interesting collaboration. Björk is an odd and intense character with a remarkable voice.

 - Yes, her voice is very powerful. But oddly enough, she wasn't considered a good singer as a child. She wanted singing lessons but the teachers refused to give it to her because they thought she was a hopeless case.

 - Will you and Björk write the lyrics together?

 - That's what we have planned. And she will compose the music. We'll see if it works out well. But so far it seems very promising. The other day I received a letter from Catherene Deneuve, who asked for a part in the movie. So now she has got a part in it as well.

 - So she will act in another musical, after "The Umbrellas of Cherbourg" and "Les demoiselles de Rochefort".

 - Yes, but her manager told me that she can't really sing. She was synchronized in both those movies. But it seemingly worked out well, so I'm glad she wants to act in another musical again.

 - Was there already a part for her in "Dancer in the Dark"?

 - She will play Selma's best friend, but I will have to rewrite that part, since it was originally supposed to be played by a 35-years old black woman. The film will take place in Washington State in USA in the middle of the 60s, but it will be recorded in Trollhättan in Sweden.

 - Have you ever been to Washington State?

 - I've neither been to Washington State nor Trollhättan (laughter). I chose Washington because during the 60s, the death-sentenced prisoners over there, were executed by hanging, and that's an important matter in the movie. Today prisoners may still be hanged, but they can also chose to be executed by a poison injection, if they prefer that method. I was inspired by the American expression "Tap-dancing at the end of a rope." A journalist , who has made some research, has given me a video tape from the prison where the death-sentenced prisoners were hanged. It was a severe and gruesome ritual. The rope, for example, must be tied in a very special manner. When I watched western-movies I always thought the rope was tied in a manner, which would make it glide easier. But the knot is supposed to break the neck of the prisoner.

 - Have you seen the film "Sentenced to be hanged" by Nagisa Oshima?

 - No, but I've recently seen "Cold blood" by Richard Brooks, which is very good but very frightening. It's easy to make execution scenes look horrid on the screen.

 - Why do you keep introducing your movies as triologies? Your three first movies "The element of crime", "Epidemic" and "Europa" were introduced as a triology about Europe. Now you introduce "Breaking the waves", "The Fools" and "Dancer in the Dark" as the "Golden Heart triology".

 - I was inspired by the Swedish film-makers. Ingmar Bergman kept making new triologies all the time. It's like in the supermarket where you can't buy just one pair of socks, you have to buy a  whole parcel containing three pairs of socks. If a movie distributor wants one movie, he will have to take two more at the same time (laughter). 

 - Now the critics can compare "Dancer in the Dark" with the two previous films in the "Golden heart"-triology, in their reviews. They can, for example write about the similarities between the three heroines. Do you think it's easier for the viewer to get into your movies if they are characterized by frequently recuring themes? Frequently recuring themes are often found, not only in films, but also in other kinds of art: A painter for example, can go through different phases and periods in his work.

 - It's all about allowing yourself to be repetitive. Just like Monet kept painting everything in shitty yellow. He was accepted because he persisted the repetition. He was polishing his art. When I introduce three movies as a triology I stress that there is a recurrent theme, which I enlighten from different views. Or that I'm trying to make a further develoment of a certain idea. It's an excuse for being repeptitive.

 - Did you proceed from the heroine Selma when you wrote the script for "Dancer in the Dark"?

 - Yes, I actually "created" Selma, before I wrote the script.  

 - Are you hoping that "Dancer in the Dark" will update the musical genre?

 - I want to give the musical genre the same kind of freshness as I find in the Dogma-movies or in "Breaking the waves". I have much confirmed ideas about what the song- and dance-features will look like. I will record those scenes with 100 video cameras. The cameras will be stationary and spread out all over the recording area. You will be able to predict what will be recorded in which camera. But there will be a huge amount of film to choose from when I will direct the final cuts. But I don't want the unusual recording technique to get more attention than the plot. I want the film to proceed from the story of the script.

(Björk as Selma in "Dancer in the Dark")

The story is based on the relationship between Selma and her son. They are both suffering from a heridetary disease, which threatens to make them blind. Selma works overtime in a factory to save enough money to give her son an operation, which will rescue his eye-sight. In the end of the film someone asks her why she chose to have a child, since she knew he would get the same disease as herself. And she will say that she had him just because she wanted to hold a little baby in her arms.

I was inspired by a cartoon when I wrote the script. I can't recall its name, but it's a dreadfully sentimental cartoon! It takes place in New York and it's about a police officer who finds a doll in a garbage can. He gives it away to an Italian woman,  who he is in love with. She gives the doll away to her little daughter, who suddenly drops it. The little girl starts crawling around all across the floor searching for her doll. It isn't until that scene takes place that the viewer finds out that the little girl is blind. It's certainly a very powerful scene! At last she finds the doll and during the rest of the film she keeps talking to it - the same way as Bess talks to God in "Breaking the waves"! She travels around the city with her doll and suddenly she can see again thanks to her doll. The cartoon ends with the little girl seeing her mother for the first time. It certainly is a dreadfully sentimental cartoon!

(An original poster from "Magnificent obsession")

I was also inspired by the film "The Magnificent obsession" by Douglas Sirk. It's a completely amazing story about a woman who turns blind in a car accident. The man, who is guilty for the accident, wants to give her back her eye-sight again. So he becomes a doctor to be able to give her an operation, which will give her back her eye-sight. In the end he performs the operation and then she can see again. And then they get married! That's a very powerful story! But I think "Dancer in the Dark" is a bit more down-to-earth.

 - I think Selma seems like a combination between all the heroes in your previous movies.

 - Maybe. But I'm still working on the Selma-character. I don't think all the things she goes through are believable. Somewhere in the movie she's going to say that communism is good for people. That will make her situation more difficult during the trial.

 - The film takes place during the 60s. Is it because you want to relate to the old American musicals?

 - No. If I wanted to relate to the old American musicals then the film would take place during the 50s. Many musical higlights were recorded during that century, for example "An American in Paris", "Singin' in the rain" and "The Band Wagon". I really like "The Band Wagon", with Fred Astaire. He was very good in "Singin' in the rain" too.

(Fred Astaire dancing away)

I want a song from "Sound of music" to be performed in "Dancer in the Dark". It certainly would fit in. But I'm not sure if I can get permission to use the song. Anyway, it would be very interesting to hear Björk's version of it. I want the song to be in the amateur setting of "Sound of music", in which Selma is going to take part. But the musical-era was already past when "Sound of music" was made. There were just a few well-known musicals made during the 60s, for example "West side story" and "Cabaret".

 - I find "Cabaret" very interesting since it's a musical with a political content.

 - Yes, but I've seen it so many times that I'm about to become fed up with it. But I really liked it when it was new. Most musicals are extremely americanized. I think that's why "West side story" is my favorite musical, because it's dealing with such a typical American matter. I think "West side story" is the one musical, which that can easily become a movie. Maybe because it was the first musical to deal with unglamorous, everyday matters. I think "Singin' in the rain" is my favorite among the old classical movie-musicals. Much because of Gene Kelly. Fred Astaire was a very great dancer, but Gene Kelly was a great dancer with a remarkable talent for choreography.

 - Selma comes from Czechoslovakia. Is this because you wanted her to come from a country in the Eastern Europe?

 - Yes. And I like the name Selma. My daughter is called Selma as well! The name comes from Eastern Europe. And I wanted Selma to come from a country in the East of Europe as a counterpart to America.

 - "Dancer in the dark" is very "Americana"-remiscent. There are many elements, which are often related to USA, not to mention American movies in general. For example, the execution scene in the end.

 - Yes, execution scenes are frequented in American movies and they are often very powerful. We'll see how it will turn out in "Dancer in the Dark".

 - Selma lives in a caravan. Is this a typical American existence?

 - Yes. But I let her live in a caravan, because I was inspired by the movie "Stroszek" by Werner Herzog. I really like that movie. Herzog was greatly talented. It's a pity he has stopped making movies now. He has put up an opera play , which is said to be brilliant, in Bayreuth. I would love to see it.

(A scene from "Stroszek" by Werner Herzog)

 - Would you like to put up an opera after this musical-project?

 - I don't know. If I ever did , it would be "Tristan and Isolde".